Profit & Exploitation 16 1

After the brilliant article by Duststorm and the comments bellow I decided to spend 0.5VBUX for the good of the vworkers, showing them how they are exploited for profit!*

The comparison of prices is between Hellas and Bulgaria. Salaries in Hellas and Bulgaria are the same in terms of VBUX, since in Hellas it is 0.09GRD and GRD costs 0.050VBUX and in Bulgaria it is 0.18BGN** and BGN costs 0.025VBUX.
The method was Bulgarian price(numerator)/Hellenic price(denominator) because Hellenic prices might be used to compare other economies as well. Moreover Hellenic prices are absolutely the same in GRD and VBUX for 3 years.
The "+" indicates that Bulgarian product is more expensive, while "-" indicates that Bulgarian product is less expensive.

Ammo T3: 0.080GRD vs 0.227BGN +42%
Armour T3: 0.8GRD vs 1.648BGN +3%
Weapons T3: 1.6GRD vs 3.811BGN +19%
Medicine T3: 0.24GRD vs 0.927BGN +93%
House T3: 60GRD vs 149.350BGN +24%
Books T3: 0.48GRD vs 1.339BGN +39%
Bread: 0.24GRD vs 0.400BGN -17%
Pizza: 0.4GRD vs 1.030BGN +29%
Beer: 0.32GRD vs 0.546BGN -15%
Tickets: 0.2GRD vs 0.514BGN +28.5%
Cars: 4GRD vs 15.449BGN +93%
Fuel: 0.08GRD vs 0.206BGN +29%
Power: 0.16GRD vs 0.350BGN +9%

Hellenic GDP per Capita 8.85 VBX - Bulgarian GDP per Capita 4.47 VBX, Hellas has almost double GDP per Capita.

Next Station is Brasil

1BRL=1.1GRD , BRL is +10%
Brasilian salaries are at 0.20BRL but with 50% income taxes they are halved.
The formula is (Price in BRL/0.1BRL)/(Price in GRD/0.09GRD)= 0.9 * Price in BRL/Price in GRD

Ammo T3: 0.080GRD vs 0.104BRL +17%
Armour T3: 0.8GRD vs 1.040BRL +17%
Weapons T3: 1.6GRD vs 2.098BRL +18%
Medicine T3: 0.24GRD vs 0.315BRL +18%
House T2: 40GRD vs 52.500BRL +18%
Books T3: 0.48GRD vs 0.630BRL +18%
Bread: 0.24GRD vs 0.400BRL +50%
Pizza: 0.4GRD vs 0.500BRL +12.5%
Beer: 0.32GRD vs 0.420BRL +18%
Tickets: 0.20GRD vs 0.263BRL +18%
Cars: 4GRD vs 5.250BRL 18%
Fuel: 0.08GRD vs 0.105BRL 18%
Power: 0.16GRD vs 0.210BRL +18%

Hellenic GDP per Capita 8.85 VBX - Brasilian GDP per Capita 6.01 VBX, Hellas has 47% higher GDP per Capita.

Brasil did what we do, but for a strange reason raised taxes very high and chosen to have a great profit as well. Keep in mind that Hellenic Communal Companies operate already with profit, so what you see is the additional profit others have.

After the request of Oceania's Lord Commander Darkmyre we included Oceanian economy in this article.
Oceania's salaries vary a lot they go from 0.18AUD to 0.10AUD so I used both max and min salaries as you will see. The "from" refers on the workers that get paied with 0.18AUD and the "to" on the workers that get paied with 0.10AUD.

Ammo T3: 0.080GRD vs 0.206AUD from +29 to +132%
Armour T3: 0.8GRD vs 5.250AUD from +228 to +490%
Weapons T3: 1.6GRD vs 3.675AUD from +15 to +107%
Medicine T3: 0.24GRD vs 0.420AUD from - 12.5 to +57.5%
House T1: 6.4GRD vs 38.640AUD from +202 to +443%
Books T2: 0.4GRD vs 2.835AUD from +254 to +538%
Bread: 0.24GRD vs 0.335AUD from -30 to +25%
Beer: 0.32GRD vs 0.315AUD from -51 to -11%
Tickets: 0.2GRD vs 0.525AUD from +31 to +136%
Cars: 4GRD vs 9.829AUD from +23 to +121%
Fuel: 0.08GRD vs 0.105AUD from -35 to +18%
Power: 0.16GRD vs 0.121AUD from -62 to -32%

Hellenic GDP per Capita 8.85 VBX - Oceanian GDP per Capita 0.54 VBX, Hellas has 16 times higher GDP per Capita.

I know very well the profit Hellenic State Companies have in GRD, yes these salaries and prices give profit, it is not a giveaway of GRD, so I can immagine the profits others can make...I hope now you do as well!

* This comparison is mostly between State Owned Companies, since they dominate Hellenic and Bulgarian markets. Bulgaria might fund with the profit of the State Owned Companies the welfare programms, but this is something I do not know.
** 0.18BGN is not the highest salary, it is the salary of the Bulgarian State Companies, but I doubt a privateer can keep paying me 40BGN per day. In Hellas most companies are State Owned and there is no higher salary at the moment, but I still doubt that a privateer in Hellas will keep paying you in GRD, since it is difficult for him to get them back.

Duststorm 46 Unread
18:01:16, 02/04/14 0
Anyone else selling Guns? Metralla takes WAY too long to reply to my messages.

Metralla 93 Unread
20:38:09, 31/03/14 0
SirDude I think people are buying GRD, what do you think?
(Last Edited 20:41:05, 31/03/14)
SirDude 72 Unread
20:24:51, 31/03/14 2
Greek nonsense once again!

The GRD has no 'gold' coverage. Nobody want's the GRD. Anyhow I'm in no need of neither VBX nor any other currency. I've long forgotten what it's like to count the beans, due to the high standart of living in vBulgaria. Every sunny afternoon I have free time to strole in Sofia 's University park, fondling with young student females.
Recreational time is good for your mind, Metralla!
Metralla 93 Unread
07:18:55, 25/03/14 0
Sorry I didn't keep my promise, but had some RL stuff till past Friday and now we have a new adventure ahead of us! I will return though.
Metralla 93 Unread
23:47:15, 21/02/14 0
If I add T4 equipment, we will laugh a lot:P
We will probably have T4 in Hellas in March.
Duststorm 46 Unread
18:31:58, 18/02/14 1
Do USA please, So I don't have to the research later. Thank you in advance. =D
I doubt we compare very well right now. I noticed some of our products cost the most within the entire Vworld. ;_;

As for welfare, during my time as a newbie. A couple years ago, I guess you could call welfare begging your boss for a raise and then settling for some free loaves of bread.
Although, if join the army, you get free Weapons, Meds, Armor and food.

American U.S.O companies during my term pretty much matched Hellas prices compared to VBX. Saddly, American is back to it's old capitalist system, where the idea of profit doesn't quite match reality. Much like the RL market of America today.

At least we actually produce stuff in then vworld. =D
It just comes down to the fact that nonprofit companies will always best profit companies in the market.
(Last Edited 18:40:53, 18/02/14)
z78sabjan 93 Unread
21:18:31, 16/02/14 0
this has nothing to do with fear, it's simple experience. if i set a 0.18 or 0.22 then higher skilled people will take the job quickly. if a 30+ skilled labour accepts the job for example, then the state could loose 5 low skilled person's wage in the process. then it's a pain in the ass to set their wages much lower one by one so it's worth more for them to take private offers.

the state in our country supports it's newbies on it's own budget, in the meantime we have to protect our private companies too so we offer lower wages on higher skills.
Metralla 93 Unread
20:34:37, 16/02/14 0
Why people are so full of fear? How it would be abused If you had offers at 0.18?
z78sabjan 93 Unread
20:23:10, 16/02/14 0
here you go:
z78sabjan 93 Unread
20:17:50, 16/02/14 0
the offers are at .14 to avoid high skill players to abuse the system, once someone applies his wage gets changed. i give you some screenshots in a moment just need to finish a conversation with my mate
Metralla 93 Unread
20:14:17, 16/02/14 0
Massino At the moment job offers in Hungary give another picture. Show me the offers of state companies.
z78sabjan 93 Unread
20:09:27, 16/02/14 0
Metralla some advert never hurts right? :) yeah supporting newbies should be the priority of all countries in Hungary we employed a series of rules, consider these:

- every citizen can get -by subjective right- T2 weapons, T2 ammo, T1/T2 armor or mixture of T1/T2/T3 medicine

- under skill level 5 (in all industries) the state offers a 0.22HUF/unit top salary, which is considering the hungarian market's regulated prices more than any private company can give (without loosing money on the production)
(Last Edited 20:10:00, 16/02/14)
Metralla 93 Unread
20:00:38, 16/02/14 0
Massino Yes I agree, actually depends on how bored is the manager:P The comparison will be with what I see on the market, the welfare policy of each country is something that complicates the situation since it adds the factor of statism(state's intervention). Some countries distribute weapons via MB, we in Hellas, we donate directly to the noobs all the products they cannot buy, or just money without messing with the salaries.
I am thankful for your comment since it enriches the article and gives more data to the reader about the actual situation in Hungary.
z78sabjan 93 Unread
19:45:50, 16/02/14 0
not that hard as it sounds m8, we have a new worker every other week :)))
Metralla 93 Unread
19:02:08, 16/02/14 0
Massino Do you mean that you check daily all companies If someone of skill 0-5 has been hired and then you raise his salary to 0.22HUF?
z78sabjan 93 Unread
16:17:21, 16/02/14 1
Ok Metralla In Hungary the state supports newbies, hence the wage for skill 0-5 is 0.22HUF/unit. Above that the average wage is 0.18 HUF, although there are some higher offers. The taxes are unified, income tax 5% and sales tax 15% on every product, all other taxes are 0.
Metralla 93 Unread
15:01:17, 16/02/14 0
Soon I will include Spain, Hungary, Ukraine and Germany, let's see If we will have any surprize!
Maguilao 89 Unread
14:11:54, 05/02/14 0
I wasn't saying your calculations were wrong, not at all. I was just explaining to "the world" our prices and specially our taxes policy. We have very high Income Taxes, but they don't fall on the worker. There is a 50% tax but the salaries are doubled, so it is effectively 0% tax. Just that.
(Last Edited 18:05:53, 05/02/14)
Metralla 93 Unread
13:45:09, 05/02/14 0
Maguilao I hope you do not impose that my calculations are wrong because I also used 0.10BRL instead of 0.20BRL.
I can give you a list with the final productivity costs of each product, If you want. I will post it later maybe in the same article!
Why you have that high taxation? Why don't you take into consideration Power Bonus?

Oh besides I have to correct Bread and Pizza, they are sold for 0.24 and 0.32 but their price should be 0.32 and 0.4! I do not know maybe the new government has plans!
(Last Edited 13:47:48, 05/02/14)
Maguilao 89 Unread
13:22:44, 05/02/14 0
Actually, the high Income Taxes in Brasil (50%) are virtual. All the prices are calculated considering the net salary as the costs (0.10 BRL), not the full salary (0.20 BRL). The difference in prices from Hellas (our extra profit) are from the Power bonus (which we don't take into consideration) and the 5% Sales Tax for final products. Thus the almost constant 17%~18% difference in almost all the products. I just don't understand why the Food (Bread and Pizza) items differ so much from this margin.
Pharnaoz 46 Unread
11:20:07, 05/02/14 0
Metralla Thanks for the information. As I remember vTurkey also tried this system in a different way, it was more strict. But after a while there were no products in market, I think production was not enough or someone was plundering market. Most of new players left the game, now it has just 2 or 3 active players.
Metralla 93 Unread
07:58:35, 05/02/14 0
Edited to add Oceania, GDP per Capita comparissons and to correct Tickets and Power prices.
ViNsEnD 84 Unread
07:13:34, 05/02/14 1
The money is not the problem...

Metralla 93 Unread
05:36:37, 05/02/14 1
Pharmaoz Our system is stable by its nature(self stabilizing) and I will explain you why.
1-State companies have the advantage that they can stock, without selling, because they have infinite money for salaries. A private company must find somehow money so it cannot stand for long periods with high production and low sales, except If salaries are severely thinned.
2-Profit percentage...If my salary is 10$ and I sell grain(for example) at its cost, 10$ then I have no profit. Or in other words, all the profit goes to the worker, through salary.
If I have no profit, how a private company will compete me? In order to compete me a private company will need to post higher salaries in order to attract workers or to sell cheaper than me.
If they have higher salaries than me then their grain will be more expensive than mine, so it will be impossible to be sold. If their grain is not sold, they will not be able to maintain higher salaries so salaries will drop and workers will return to me.
If they sell cheaper than me then they will need to have lower salaries than me, If they have higher salaries than me and they sell cheaper then they have loss or in other words they donate money/grain. If they have lower salaries than me, then why a worker to go work for them?

Besides this system was established when we were very noobs and we had many more players and it dominated. It was not established in a closed circuit of oldfags. Greek players are not all lefists IRL, not even the majority of them, they just see that in vN this works for their benefit and we had many non leftist foreigners that lived and worked here because of these benefits.
Communism is based on materialism not ideology for ideology. Materialism means that the motive of people is the seek of wealth and history(and ideologies) is formed on how wealth is distributed. Communists say that If people are organised and cooperate instead of compete, then wealth can be maximized and If there is a lot of wealth, people will be happy with it and will support it, not because of ideology, but because this offers them more wealth(better life)! This stands for everywhere there are people, games or RL.
A note about RL...capitalism "works" in some countries because it "fails" in others. If workers of Asia didn't work for 1$ per month to produce the wealth for the west and products had to be produced in USA or UK, then US and British workers would be impoverished, like they were 200 years ago.
Returning to vN. This is difficult or impossible to occur in vN because everyone can be selfsustained personally and there are no game mechanics for Hellas to obligate a country to slave labour and another country to buy of Hellenic products.

Pharnaoz 46 Unread
22:27:39, 04/02/14 0
Metralla I think vGreeks buy needed products from state companies so Grd stays inside. I looked for active players in vgreek, most of them are above level 25 and well organised players. Communism works in this system. But what will happen if the amount of unorganised players and player based companies rise? Will this change something? Or everything will be ok just like before?

(Last Edited 22:28:05, 04/02/14)
Metralla 93 Unread
20:20:29, 04/02/14 0
The Dimitrator Indeed Bulgarian economy is the very advanced, it had better days though. What are these speculative purposes? If you have something, say it clear.
The Dimitrator 77 Unread
19:28:55, 04/02/14 1
@Metralla my lovely again you make some subjective statements and "supposes". Dont get me wrong, I am happy that you take time to observe markets and since vBulgarian economy is the strongest - you start from there and that is the right thing to do :) And again my opinion is that your propaganda have speculative purposes :)
James A. Conrad 87 Unread
17:56:53, 04/02/14 1
Voted, even though Metralla can't hold his rum.
Metralla 93 Unread
16:53:07, 04/02/14 0
abramacabra This wouldn't change anything since still we divide prices with salaries.
Massino Average productivity? How this could help?
abramacabra 88 Unread
16:32:46, 04/02/14 0
Metralla wouldn't it be easier to compare PP/cost of consumer good?
eg. I got 0.17 USD for PP and I can get t3 ammo for 0.17 - so I can get 1 ammo for 1 PP

z78sabjan 93 Unread
16:31:03, 04/02/14 0
Metralla just a suggestion, use the average productivity as a base, i know that's a pain in the ass but it would give you much more practical stats
Metralla 93 Unread
15:39:06, 04/02/14 0
Maguilao Yes it is power bonus. Here is my last salary Produced 295.49 for $21.47.
As you see I get paied 0.0726GRD for each productivity point.
0.09/0.0726=1.24 and power bonus is +25% so our actual salary is 0.07+ but in order to get this salary we need to set it at 0.09 cause the game does not pay you for the extra productivity power gives you as it does with roads. I think I made it clear, right?
We buy each productivity point for 0.07+ and we sell it for 0.08 so our clear profit is ~10% for high productivities(14% for infinite productivities). For low productivities is significantly less and for productivities below 16 is negative, but I need to check from what productivities and upwards we use power. If we do not use power for productivities below 16, then profit is never negative.
(Last Edited 15:41:24, 04/02/14)
Maguilao 89 Unread
15:22:08, 04/02/14 1
Metralla I have a doubt. In some cases Hellenic state companies sell their products cheaper than their costs? For example Medicine T3:
Work cost = 0.09 GRD / PP
1/3 Chemicals = 0.03 GRD
1/3 Saltpeter = 0.06 GRD
1/3 Zinc = 0.09 GRD
1 Manufacturing = 0.09 GRD
Total = 0.27 GRD
Price = 0.24 GRD
Is it somehow related to the Power usage bonus? Or is it something else I'm missing?
Metralla 93 Unread
15:10:39, 04/02/14 0
The Dimitrator: My dear, in most cases I compared Hellenic and Bulgarian State Companies since in most sectors Bulgarian State Company is monopoly or has the most competitive price. Monetary Market gives Recomended Rate: $1 BGN = $0.024 VBX so I suppose there are many people with BGN that want to sell.
You are not open market because you have taxes. In terms of taxes we far more open than almost any active country. In terms of State Companies, we both have so we are in the same status.
I understand that you dislike communists. Communists is a threat for your profits.

everyone I am sorry that I was misleading. The formula is (Price in BGN/salary in BGN)/(Price in GRD/salary in GRD). Even If 1 BGN=1 VBUX, I cannot buy more products with the salary I get in Bulgaria. So If Bulgarian State Company of T3 Ammo gives 0.18BGN salary and sells T3 Ammo at 0.227BGN has indeed +42% more profit than the Hellenic one.

Darkmyre I will, but please fill in the market with as many products you can
(Last Edited 15:13:34, 04/02/14)
The Dimitrator 77 Unread
11:53:34, 04/02/14 1
Oh my, this article touches my soul :) But unfortunate sadly there is incorrect information in the very beginning. Salary in vBulgaria is 0.18 and assumption that privateer cant keep salaries is only assumption not statistics. Also BGN has different exchange rates and often it is 0.27 not 0.25.

Also as Metralla mention this is compartment between state companies and we know that vBulgaria is open market.

Oh and yes - we don't like communists :PPP
Darkmyre 87 Unread
11:33:13, 04/02/14 0
Metralla I'd be interested in seeing how vOceania stacks up
Metralla 93 Unread
10:39:26, 04/02/14 0
darki I never hided my political views, although communist is a raped term. I'd rather say libertarian socialist in order people to wiki it and detect the differences.
Apart of my RL political views, we are in vN and we had a chance to experiment with a system that is not oppressive and is relatively just, that's what I propagate about.

Your wartime arguement smells so much v-sovietism! They (vSoviets) were obsessed with control/authority and the fear of potential exploits against them.
I cannot prove mathematically that you are wrong, but I can tell that we never had such problems till now, we might have in the future since I cannot prove the opposite.
Hmmm but I think I will give a shot...
I doubt someone has enough GRD to sweep our stocks.
GRD never was sold cheaper than 0.050VBUX.
Greeks almost never worked or bought products from non communal companies. So GRD circulate in the companies and because we have profit, all the salaries cannot buy all the products.
If someone sells cheaper than us, either he works in Hellas with lower salaries(pointless) or he is improting because of our high exchange ratio. If he successfully sells indeed then we rise faster our stocks, because we do not sell. Since he sells cheaper, the profits cannot buy the excess in stocks.
If someone buys GRD from monetary market, then VBUX is always welcoming, I exchange our stocks for their value in VBUX.
Of course anytime we monitor capital transfers in the markets and we do not have all of our stock on sale. Our soldiers have already emergency stocks in their characters and villas.
Skylovaravas 77 Unread
10:22:18, 04/02/14 1
darki 89 Unread
10:16:27, 04/02/14 1
''...for the good of the vworkers, showing them how they are exploited for profit!*...''

Metralla You are a Communist! :P
now seriously you do not expect that goods that do not limit in inventory will be put cheaper? for example at war always someone can try buy all the ammo and medicines(sabotage market) because they have no limit in inventory fuel also but is not so important. ;)
Metralla 93 Unread
08:35:33, 04/02/14 0
Any country that wants me to do the comparison, is welcome to post this demand. When I have time and mood I might do it by my own ofc.
(Last Edited 08:37:22, 04/02/14)

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